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	<title>Comments on: Optimal Research on Optimal Taxation</title>
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	<description>Facts, Thoughts, and Commentary</description>
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		<title>By: jonathan</title>
		<link>http://jaredbernsteinblog.com/optimal-research-on-optimal-taxation/#comment-58513</link>
		<dc:creator>jonathan</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 30 Nov 2011 17:40:29 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://jaredbernsteinblog.com/?p=3022#comment-58513</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[The paper spends a lot of time talking about taxes on capital gains. That is mostly what Sumner talks about.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The paper spends a lot of time talking about taxes on capital gains. That is mostly what Sumner talks about.</p>
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		<title>By: jonathan</title>
		<link>http://jaredbernsteinblog.com/optimal-research-on-optimal-taxation/#comment-58510</link>
		<dc:creator>jonathan</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 30 Nov 2011 17:37:09 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://jaredbernsteinblog.com/?p=3022#comment-58510</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Kimel&#039;s approach is totally different, as he notes.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Kimel&#8217;s approach is totally different, as he notes.</p>
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		<title>By: Mike Sax</title>
		<link>http://jaredbernsteinblog.com/optimal-research-on-optimal-taxation/#comment-58488</link>
		<dc:creator>Mike Sax</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 30 Nov 2011 16:58:58 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://jaredbernsteinblog.com/?p=3022#comment-58488</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[I have come upt with my own tax policy. As I was born in Egland though I&#039;m an American citizen it will have to be state policy where I picutre myself as governor of the state of NY. Please take a look. With all the tax proposals out there I add my own to the mix http://diaryofarepublicanhater.blogspot.com/2011/11/ok-lets-talk-taxes.html]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I have come upt with my own tax policy. As I was born in Egland though I&#8217;m an American citizen it will have to be state policy where I picutre myself as governor of the state of NY. Please take a look. With all the tax proposals out there I add my own to the mix <a href="http://diaryofarepublicanhater.blogspot.com/2011/11/ok-lets-talk-taxes.html" rel="nofollow">http://diaryofarepublicanhater.blogspot.com/2011/11/ok-lets-talk-taxes.html</a></p>
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		<title>By: Jared Bernstein</title>
		<link>http://jaredbernsteinblog.com/optimal-research-on-optimal-taxation/#comment-58059</link>
		<dc:creator>Jared Bernstein</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 30 Nov 2011 00:46:01 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://jaredbernsteinblog.com/?p=3022#comment-58059</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[I&#039;ll check it out.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I&#8217;ll check it out.</p>
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		<title>By: pjr</title>
		<link>http://jaredbernsteinblog.com/optimal-research-on-optimal-taxation/#comment-58007</link>
		<dc:creator>pjr</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 29 Nov 2011 22:50:30 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://jaredbernsteinblog.com/?p=3022#comment-58007</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Kimel at AngryBear and Presimetrics has over the past couple of years used econometrics to identify an optimal top tax bracket of 60-70 percent, and offers a good explanation at http://www.angrybearblog.com/2011/11/peter-diamond-emmanuel-saez-paul.html  Basically at this rate business owners have the incentive to reinvest and grow and hire (and not the freedom to do whatever they want to do with the money, without paying a large tax for this freedom). Saez and Diamond used an entirely different approach, similar conclusions.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Kimel at AngryBear and Presimetrics has over the past couple of years used econometrics to identify an optimal top tax bracket of 60-70 percent, and offers a good explanation at <a href="http://www.angrybearblog.com/2011/11/peter-diamond-emmanuel-saez-paul.html" rel="nofollow">http://www.angrybearblog.com/2011/11/peter-diamond-emmanuel-saez-paul.html</a>  Basically at this rate business owners have the incentive to reinvest and grow and hire (and not the freedom to do whatever they want to do with the money, without paying a large tax for this freedom). Saez and Diamond used an entirely different approach, similar conclusions.</p>
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		<title>By: Mike Sax</title>
		<link>http://jaredbernsteinblog.com/optimal-research-on-optimal-taxation/#comment-57878</link>
		<dc:creator>Mike Sax</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 29 Nov 2011 18:04:46 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://jaredbernsteinblog.com/?p=3022#comment-57878</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Hey Jared! There has been a pretty good debate about this paper on the econ blogs. At Angry Bear there&#039;s this guy Mike Kimel who has been working on this same idea of the optimum tax rate. Of course Scott Sumner over at Money Illusion has been denoucing the idea. 

    http://www.themoneyillusion.com/?p=12054

    The idea that lowering top marigninal tax rates does nothing to growth but increases income inequality sounds about right from what empirical history tells us. So during the Bush years until the crisis hit we saw GDP get as high as 3.5 percent but we also saw inequality rise. So the Stephen Moores and Arthur Laffers have no basis to claim that Bush&#039;s tax cuts gave us the high growth-or at best we could have found other ways to gain a similar level of growth with more income equality. 

   Please try this 

  http://diaryofarepublicanhater.blogspot.com/2011/11/danger-of-misleading-economic-arguments.html]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Hey Jared! There has been a pretty good debate about this paper on the econ blogs. At Angry Bear there&#8217;s this guy Mike Kimel who has been working on this same idea of the optimum tax rate. Of course Scott Sumner over at Money Illusion has been denoucing the idea. </p>
<p>    <a href="http://www.themoneyillusion.com/?p=12054" rel="nofollow">http://www.themoneyillusion.com/?p=12054</a></p>
<p>    The idea that lowering top marigninal tax rates does nothing to growth but increases income inequality sounds about right from what empirical history tells us. So during the Bush years until the crisis hit we saw GDP get as high as 3.5 percent but we also saw inequality rise. So the Stephen Moores and Arthur Laffers have no basis to claim that Bush&#8217;s tax cuts gave us the high growth-or at best we could have found other ways to gain a similar level of growth with more income equality. </p>
<p>   Please try this </p>
<p>  <a href="http://diaryofarepublicanhater.blogspot.com/2011/11/danger-of-misleading-economic-arguments.html" rel="nofollow">http://diaryofarepublicanhater.blogspot.com/2011/11/danger-of-misleading-economic-arguments.html</a></p>
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		<title>By: Joe K</title>
		<link>http://jaredbernsteinblog.com/optimal-research-on-optimal-taxation/#comment-57775</link>
		<dc:creator>Joe K</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 29 Nov 2011 13:32:06 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://jaredbernsteinblog.com/?p=3022#comment-57775</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[How about we nudge it up to 40%, tax all income (including SSO) as ordinary income, add a 10% surtax on income over $1 million (until fiscal/economic situation stabilizes), and restore estate tax to a flat 50% $2 million exclusion. Still plenty to do to phase out tax expenditures and subsidies, with an offset at the low end by increasing the standard deduction. But this would be a real start toward fixing the economy if we could couple it with a serious direct jobs program (a la WPA).]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>How about we nudge it up to 40%, tax all income (including SSO) as ordinary income, add a 10% surtax on income over $1 million (until fiscal/economic situation stabilizes), and restore estate tax to a flat 50% $2 million exclusion. Still plenty to do to phase out tax expenditures and subsidies, with an offset at the low end by increasing the standard deduction. But this would be a real start toward fixing the economy if we could couple it with a serious direct jobs program (a la WPA).</p>
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		<title>By: Geoff Swenson</title>
		<link>http://jaredbernsteinblog.com/optimal-research-on-optimal-taxation/#comment-57635</link>
		<dc:creator>Geoff Swenson</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 29 Nov 2011 07:26:32 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://jaredbernsteinblog.com/?p=3022#comment-57635</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[I don&#039;t think we need to have brackets any more. A simple, continuous equation will do just fine.

rate = MAX(70 - ((12,000/Income)^0.4),0)

This way any small increase in salary doesn&#039;t put you in a worse tax bracket. 

     $8,000	 0%
    $16,000	 0%
    $32,000	 5%
    $64,000	21%
   $128,000	33%
   $256,000	42%
   $512,000	48%
 $1,024,000	54%
 $2,048,000	58%
 $4,096,000	61%
 $8,192,000	63%
$16,384,000	65%]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I don&#8217;t think we need to have brackets any more. A simple, continuous equation will do just fine.</p>
<p>rate = MAX(70 &#8211; ((12,000/Income)^0.4),0)</p>
<p>This way any small increase in salary doesn&#8217;t put you in a worse tax bracket. </p>
<p>     $8,000	 0%<br />
    $16,000	 0%<br />
    $32,000	 5%<br />
    $64,000	21%<br />
   $128,000	33%<br />
   $256,000	42%<br />
   $512,000	48%<br />
 $1,024,000	54%<br />
 $2,048,000	58%<br />
 $4,096,000	61%<br />
 $8,192,000	63%<br />
$16,384,000	65%</p>
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		<title>By: urban legend</title>
		<link>http://jaredbernsteinblog.com/optimal-research-on-optimal-taxation/#comment-57508</link>
		<dc:creator>urban legend</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 29 Nov 2011 03:18:58 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://jaredbernsteinblog.com/?p=3022#comment-57508</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Better than one top 40% bracket: 40% on up to $1 million taxable (starting where top rate starts now), 45% on $1+ million to $10 million, 50% on $10 million +. Not unreasonable, probably politically popular -- so what&#039;s the revenue from that?]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Better than one top 40% bracket: 40% on up to $1 million taxable (starting where top rate starts now), 45% on $1+ million to $10 million, 50% on $10 million +. Not unreasonable, probably politically popular &#8212; so what&#8217;s the revenue from that?</p>
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		<title>By: jonathan</title>
		<link>http://jaredbernsteinblog.com/optimal-research-on-optimal-taxation/#comment-57507</link>
		<dc:creator>jonathan</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 29 Nov 2011 03:13:45 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://jaredbernsteinblog.com/?p=3022#comment-57507</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[The paper is complicated and seems to be written intentionally to avoid dealing with some of the issues it raises; it presents itself as a policy rather than an economics paper. 

They push 2 bits together and spend no meaningful time talking about 1 of them. The bits are tax rate effects, meaning income changes as tax rates change, and welfare utility for the rich. They assume away the latter and that leaves the paper open to criticism. They don&#039;t, for example, include any numbers on what a range of utility values for the rich would generate as optimal tax rates. They note it would take a very high utility - something near .75 - to generate the current highest marginal rate given their other assumptions. That&#039;s interesting but it needs context to be persuasive. It would also help if they talked about what it means to have certain utility values; I&#039;ve already seen &quot;conservative&quot; commenters pointing out their number as a flaw. 

They also use what some would consider a low value for income sensitivity to tax rate change. They note that using a much higher rate would still generate a higher marginal rate than now exists but why not give a graph or table?

The main point I took from the paper is that if you look at historical income and tax rate information and then apply a rational utility value, you get a range of tax rates that are higher than today&#039;s and you only get today&#039;s rates if you argue for radically skewed numbers.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The paper is complicated and seems to be written intentionally to avoid dealing with some of the issues it raises; it presents itself as a policy rather than an economics paper. </p>
<p>They push 2 bits together and spend no meaningful time talking about 1 of them. The bits are tax rate effects, meaning income changes as tax rates change, and welfare utility for the rich. They assume away the latter and that leaves the paper open to criticism. They don&#8217;t, for example, include any numbers on what a range of utility values for the rich would generate as optimal tax rates. They note it would take a very high utility &#8211; something near .75 &#8211; to generate the current highest marginal rate given their other assumptions. That&#8217;s interesting but it needs context to be persuasive. It would also help if they talked about what it means to have certain utility values; I&#8217;ve already seen &#8220;conservative&#8221; commenters pointing out their number as a flaw. </p>
<p>They also use what some would consider a low value for income sensitivity to tax rate change. They note that using a much higher rate would still generate a higher marginal rate than now exists but why not give a graph or table?</p>
<p>The main point I took from the paper is that if you look at historical income and tax rate information and then apply a rational utility value, you get a range of tax rates that are higher than today&#8217;s and you only get today&#8217;s rates if you argue for radically skewed numbers.</p>
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