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	<title>Comments on: What Did You Learn From the Cliff Debate, Dorothy? (And the most important question in today&#8217;s politics.)</title>
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	<link>http://jaredbernsteinblog.com/what-did-you-learn-from-the-cliff-debate-dorothy-and-the-most-important-question-in-todays-politics/</link>
	<description>Facts, Thoughts, and Commentary</description>
	<lastBuildDate>Fri, 24 May 2013 19:46:27 +0000</lastBuildDate>
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		<title>By: Paul Wolfson</title>
		<link>http://jaredbernsteinblog.com/what-did-you-learn-from-the-cliff-debate-dorothy-and-the-most-important-question-in-todays-politics/#comment-437411</link>
		<dc:creator>Paul Wolfson</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 09 Jan 2013 03:10:51 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://jaredbernsteinblog.com/?p=7461#comment-437411</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Just coming to this from your &lt;a href=&quot;http://jaredbernsteinblog.com/hey-whatd-i-miss-ote-summary-1227-16-pre-and-post-fiscal-cliff-edition/&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;ex post collection of posts on the cliff&lt;/a&gt;.  It reminds me of Abbey Road, starting with &lt;a href=&quot;http://jaredbernsteinblog.com/a-few-irreverent-cliff-notes/&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;Come Together&lt;/a&gt;, through the allusion to &lt;i&gt;Maxwell&#039;s Silver Hammer&lt;/i&gt; in the 1st paragraph above, and ending with &lt;a href=&quot;http://jaredbernsteinblog.com/todays-jobs-report-steady-as-she-goes-but-she-needs-to-go-faster/&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;Here comes the Sum&lt;/a&gt;.  Perhaps a suggestion as to the next musical interlude?]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Just coming to this from your <a href="http://jaredbernsteinblog.com/hey-whatd-i-miss-ote-summary-1227-16-pre-and-post-fiscal-cliff-edition/" rel="nofollow">ex post collection of posts on the cliff</a>.  It reminds me of Abbey Road, starting with <a href="http://jaredbernsteinblog.com/a-few-irreverent-cliff-notes/" rel="nofollow">Come Together</a>, through the allusion to <i>Maxwell&#8217;s Silver Hammer</i> in the 1st paragraph above, and ending with <a href="http://jaredbernsteinblog.com/todays-jobs-report-steady-as-she-goes-but-she-needs-to-go-faster/" rel="nofollow">Here comes the Sum</a>.  Perhaps a suggestion as to the next musical interlude?</p>
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		<title>By: Alyosha</title>
		<link>http://jaredbernsteinblog.com/what-did-you-learn-from-the-cliff-debate-dorothy-and-the-most-important-question-in-todays-politics/#comment-429839</link>
		<dc:creator>Alyosha</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 05 Jan 2013 19:18:54 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://jaredbernsteinblog.com/?p=7461#comment-429839</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Indeed. Same old game, different day. Tea Party intransigence saved us in 2011, but that reprieve was only temporary.

I&#039;ve spoken to a number of folks in DC who assure me of their belief that for some reason the past is not prologue and Obama won&#039;t cave this time. Strangely enough, none of them felt strongly enough about their conviction to put money on it.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Indeed. Same old game, different day. Tea Party intransigence saved us in 2011, but that reprieve was only temporary.</p>
<p>I&#8217;ve spoken to a number of folks in DC who assure me of their belief that for some reason the past is not prologue and Obama won&#8217;t cave this time. Strangely enough, none of them felt strongly enough about their conviction to put money on it.</p>
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		<title>By: jo6pac</title>
		<link>http://jaredbernsteinblog.com/what-did-you-learn-from-the-cliff-debate-dorothy-and-the-most-important-question-in-todays-politics/#comment-426239</link>
		<dc:creator>jo6pac</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 04 Jan 2013 03:34:57 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://jaredbernsteinblog.com/?p=7461#comment-426239</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[So true]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>So true</p>
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		<title>By: readerOfTeaLeaves</title>
		<link>http://jaredbernsteinblog.com/what-did-you-learn-from-the-cliff-debate-dorothy-and-the-most-important-question-in-todays-politics/#comment-425179</link>
		<dc:creator>readerOfTeaLeaves</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 03 Jan 2013 15:14:18 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://jaredbernsteinblog.com/?p=7461#comment-425179</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Questioning whether someone has the background, qualifications, and resources to make an informed decision without: (1) having their hands tied by an agreement they signed with Grover Norquist, or (2) being blinded by a political-economic ideology, is not &#039;bad math&#039;.  

Questioning the qualifications of people making policy decisions is not a &#039;math problem&#039;.  I am pointing to  a &#039;credibility problem&#039;.

These Congressmen may be decent people of strong beliefs and good intentions. But we are watching a political dynamic that is damaging entire economic sectors and communities; this has many implications for American competitiveness.  

Currently, the Congress has a severe credibility problem.  Consequently, it&#039;s worth asking about the credentials, expertise, and qualifications of  members of Congress who are controlling economic policies.

If we read that the Chinese government allowed its most rural, least developed members to drive engineering, tax, medical, or economic policies, we would probably all scratch our heads and figure that such a decision-making process would produce sub-optimal results.  We should similarly assess the integrity (or lack thereof) in our own system of governance, particularly as it has been producing sub-optimal results for the middle class and wide swaths of the public for some years now.

Trying to produce better outcomes in US policy will probably require asking some uncomfortable questions about: 
-- who is making the economic and tax policies, 
-- how those individuals are compensated (and promoted) -- particularly with respect to their ongoing needs for campaign contributions, and
--  what incentives exist for them to  produce policies that achieve demonstrably, measurably better overall economic policies and outcomes.

Those are not simple math problems.
These are not intended as punitive questions.
If I have to make a decision, I want someone with expertise.
This is a fairly pedestrian, run-of-the-mill attitude that has nothing to do with &#039;math&#039; and everything to do with a sober, serious attempt to insure the best possible outcomes.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Questioning whether someone has the background, qualifications, and resources to make an informed decision without: (1) having their hands tied by an agreement they signed with Grover Norquist, or (2) being blinded by a political-economic ideology, is not &#8216;bad math&#8217;.  </p>
<p>Questioning the qualifications of people making policy decisions is not a &#8216;math problem&#8217;.  I am pointing to  a &#8216;credibility problem&#8217;.</p>
<p>These Congressmen may be decent people of strong beliefs and good intentions. But we are watching a political dynamic that is damaging entire economic sectors and communities; this has many implications for American competitiveness.  </p>
<p>Currently, the Congress has a severe credibility problem.  Consequently, it&#8217;s worth asking about the credentials, expertise, and qualifications of  members of Congress who are controlling economic policies.</p>
<p>If we read that the Chinese government allowed its most rural, least developed members to drive engineering, tax, medical, or economic policies, we would probably all scratch our heads and figure that such a decision-making process would produce sub-optimal results.  We should similarly assess the integrity (or lack thereof) in our own system of governance, particularly as it has been producing sub-optimal results for the middle class and wide swaths of the public for some years now.</p>
<p>Trying to produce better outcomes in US policy will probably require asking some uncomfortable questions about:<br />
&#8211; who is making the economic and tax policies,<br />
&#8211; how those individuals are compensated (and promoted) &#8212; particularly with respect to their ongoing needs for campaign contributions, and<br />
&#8211;  what incentives exist for them to  produce policies that achieve demonstrably, measurably better overall economic policies and outcomes.</p>
<p>Those are not simple math problems.<br />
These are not intended as punitive questions.<br />
If I have to make a decision, I want someone with expertise.<br />
This is a fairly pedestrian, run-of-the-mill attitude that has nothing to do with &#8216;math&#8217; and everything to do with a sober, serious attempt to insure the best possible outcomes.</p>
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		<title>By: urban legend</title>
		<link>http://jaredbernsteinblog.com/what-did-you-learn-from-the-cliff-debate-dorothy-and-the-most-important-question-in-todays-politics/#comment-424937</link>
		<dc:creator>urban legend</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 03 Jan 2013 12:20:47 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://jaredbernsteinblog.com/?p=7461#comment-424937</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[&quot;Acting unconstitutionally&quot; to save the country in a national emergency by executing laws passed by Congress (in accordance with his duties under the Constitution!)!

Is the House going to impeach him on that basis -- that he should have allowed the United States of America to become a deadbeat nation and shut down the government at great danger to the public? When there&#039;s a Democratic Senate to try the charges? Who would have standing to sue in court? Congress passing some form of resolution (with a Democratic Senate)? Individuals in Congress? Grover Norquist?]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8220;Acting unconstitutionally&#8221; to save the country in a national emergency by executing laws passed by Congress (in accordance with his duties under the Constitution!)!</p>
<p>Is the House going to impeach him on that basis &#8212; that he should have allowed the United States of America to become a deadbeat nation and shut down the government at great danger to the public? When there&#8217;s a Democratic Senate to try the charges? Who would have standing to sue in court? Congress passing some form of resolution (with a Democratic Senate)? Individuals in Congress? Grover Norquist?</p>
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		<title>By: ifthethunderdontgetya™³²®©</title>
		<link>http://jaredbernsteinblog.com/what-did-you-learn-from-the-cliff-debate-dorothy-and-the-most-important-question-in-todays-politics/#comment-424917</link>
		<dc:creator>ifthethunderdontgetya™³²®©</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 03 Jan 2013 12:09:39 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://jaredbernsteinblog.com/?p=7461#comment-424917</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[&quot;By over-riding them, blowing past them, ignoring them as irrelevant, and refusing to negotiate on the basis of the chief executive’s Constitutional responsibility to maintain the nation’s creditworthiness, the President can deal a fatal blow to these dangerous obstructionists.&quot;

Very little sign that this is his intention.

http://fdlaction.firedoglake.com/2013/01/02/obama-will-keep-pushing-for-deficit-reduction/

Our President has been trying to cut &quot;entitlements&quot;, the record is quite plain. He merely wants to keep his fingerprints off the knife.
~]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8220;By over-riding them, blowing past them, ignoring them as irrelevant, and refusing to negotiate on the basis of the chief executive’s Constitutional responsibility to maintain the nation’s creditworthiness, the President can deal a fatal blow to these dangerous obstructionists.&#8221;</p>
<p>Very little sign that this is his intention.</p>
<p><a href="http://fdlaction.firedoglake.com/2013/01/02/obama-will-keep-pushing-for-deficit-reduction/" rel="nofollow">http://fdlaction.firedoglake.com/2013/01/02/obama-will-keep-pushing-for-deficit-reduction/</a></p>
<p>Our President has been trying to cut &#8220;entitlements&#8221;, the record is quite plain. He merely wants to keep his fingerprints off the knife.<br />
~</p>
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		<title>By: purple</title>
		<link>http://jaredbernsteinblog.com/what-did-you-learn-from-the-cliff-debate-dorothy-and-the-most-important-question-in-todays-politics/#comment-424615</link>
		<dc:creator>purple</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 03 Jan 2013 09:04:44 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://jaredbernsteinblog.com/?p=7461#comment-424615</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[See my comment above about treating red states as monolithic bloc. 

Liberals do themselves no good when they engage in this kind of bad math. It&#039;s cheap political point making, and sad to see that even Krugman occasionally does this. 

There is no point in engaging in this rhetoric unless you really feel the Blue states would be better off separating from the Red.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>See my comment above about treating red states as monolithic bloc. </p>
<p>Liberals do themselves no good when they engage in this kind of bad math. It&#8217;s cheap political point making, and sad to see that even Krugman occasionally does this. </p>
<p>There is no point in engaging in this rhetoric unless you really feel the Blue states would be better off separating from the Red.</p>
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		<title>By: purple</title>
		<link>http://jaredbernsteinblog.com/what-did-you-learn-from-the-cliff-debate-dorothy-and-the-most-important-question-in-todays-politics/#comment-424605</link>
		<dc:creator>purple</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 03 Jan 2013 08:57:20 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://jaredbernsteinblog.com/?p=7461#comment-424605</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[The problem with all red-state scolding (in terms of tax flows, etc.), is that red states are not a uniform bloc. The African-American population in red states is frequently larger by percentage than in blue states. Compare California to the Old Dixie bloc.

You can punish red states, but all that will happen is the poor and historically marginalized in those states will be devastated.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The problem with all red-state scolding (in terms of tax flows, etc.), is that red states are not a uniform bloc. The African-American population in red states is frequently larger by percentage than in blue states. Compare California to the Old Dixie bloc.</p>
<p>You can punish red states, but all that will happen is the poor and historically marginalized in those states will be devastated.</p>
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		<title>By: readerOfTeaLeaves</title>
		<link>http://jaredbernsteinblog.com/what-did-you-learn-from-the-cliff-debate-dorothy-and-the-most-important-question-in-todays-politics/#comment-424584</link>
		<dc:creator>readerOfTeaLeaves</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 03 Jan 2013 08:36:02 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://jaredbernsteinblog.com/?p=7461#comment-424584</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Many of the GOP House and Senate members who subscribe to the &#039;no new taxes&#039; ideology appear to be from US regions that are in the lower-quartile economically.  

If I go to the Wikipedia page for &quot;US states by *median income&quot;, I note that the lower-income regions highly correlate with GOP Congressional members:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_U.S._states_by_median_income

This suggests that if the President &#039;negotiates&#039; on the debt ceiling, he&#039;ll be engaging in a process whereby the Congressional members from districts with the worst track records on economic policy, educational achievement, and economic performance call the shots.  They are probably nice people; nevertheless, their track record does not engenders confidence in their ability to design tax or economic policies.

If the President allows people of very questionable qualifications to drive this process -- almost guaranteeing that it will remains rigidly ideological, rather than fact-based -- then my Left Coast state can fund outstanding educational institutions, and the people that I know can work ourselves to death and innovate until we are all blue in the face -- but our tax policies will be held hostage by GOP Congressmen determined to protect &#039;rents&#039;, rather than encourage innovation. 

How many of these GOP Congressmen are from districts that  take in more federal dollars than they generate?  I&#039;m not being snarky: it&#039;s a pragmatic question.   It&#039;s the kind of question that I think most business people might ask: how credible are these GOP Congressmen, and is it even possible to produce what they want?  Or do they simply want unicorns and ponies?

Prediction:  if under the guise of &#039;compromise&#039; the President engages in negotiations about the debt ceiling -- allowing it to be driven by the most backward, most rent-collecting Congressional members --  that process will further corrode the legitimacy of our political institutions. And that, in turn, will further damage the larger economy.


----------------------
*I realize that &#039;median&#039; is a problematic stat to use, but still... the page is informative and worth a look.
But I think states by GDP is a terrible measure: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_U.S._states_by_GDP
Note that DC is the highest GDP, and the tax haven states of Wyoming and Delaware are among the &#039;top 5&#039;, which makes the GDP measure a bit more problematic.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Many of the GOP House and Senate members who subscribe to the &#8216;no new taxes&#8217; ideology appear to be from US regions that are in the lower-quartile economically.  </p>
<p>If I go to the Wikipedia page for &#8220;US states by *median income&#8221;, I note that the lower-income regions highly correlate with GOP Congressional members:<br />
<a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_U.S._states_by_median_income" rel="nofollow">http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_U.S._states_by_median_income</a></p>
<p>This suggests that if the President &#8216;negotiates&#8217; on the debt ceiling, he&#8217;ll be engaging in a process whereby the Congressional members from districts with the worst track records on economic policy, educational achievement, and economic performance call the shots.  They are probably nice people; nevertheless, their track record does not engenders confidence in their ability to design tax or economic policies.</p>
<p>If the President allows people of very questionable qualifications to drive this process &#8212; almost guaranteeing that it will remains rigidly ideological, rather than fact-based &#8212; then my Left Coast state can fund outstanding educational institutions, and the people that I know can work ourselves to death and innovate until we are all blue in the face &#8212; but our tax policies will be held hostage by GOP Congressmen determined to protect &#8216;rents&#8217;, rather than encourage innovation. </p>
<p>How many of these GOP Congressmen are from districts that  take in more federal dollars than they generate?  I&#8217;m not being snarky: it&#8217;s a pragmatic question.   It&#8217;s the kind of question that I think most business people might ask: how credible are these GOP Congressmen, and is it even possible to produce what they want?  Or do they simply want unicorns and ponies?</p>
<p>Prediction:  if under the guise of &#8216;compromise&#8217; the President engages in negotiations about the debt ceiling &#8212; allowing it to be driven by the most backward, most rent-collecting Congressional members &#8212;  that process will further corrode the legitimacy of our political institutions. And that, in turn, will further damage the larger economy.</p>
<p>&#8212;&#8212;&#8212;&#8212;&#8212;&#8212;&#8212;-<br />
*I realize that &#8216;median&#8217; is a problematic stat to use, but still&#8230; the page is informative and worth a look.<br />
But I think states by GDP is a terrible measure: <a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_U.S._states_by_GDP" rel="nofollow">http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_U.S._states_by_GDP</a><br />
Note that DC is the highest GDP, and the tax haven states of Wyoming and Delaware are among the &#8216;top 5&#8242;, which makes the GDP measure a bit more problematic.</p>
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		<title>By: Jared Bernstein</title>
		<link>http://jaredbernsteinblog.com/what-did-you-learn-from-the-cliff-debate-dorothy-and-the-most-important-question-in-todays-politics/#comment-424447</link>
		<dc:creator>Jared Bernstein</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 03 Jan 2013 07:21:38 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://jaredbernsteinblog.com/?p=7461#comment-424447</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Thnx!  And I know you&#039;re a careful reader...]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Thnx!  And I know you&#8217;re a careful reader&#8230;</p>
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