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	<title>Comments on: When Fact Checkers Go Bad…Very Bad</title>
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	<description>Facts, Thoughts, and Commentary</description>
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		<title>By: Chigliakus</title>
		<link>http://jaredbernsteinblog.com/when-fact-checkers-go-bad%e2%80%a6very-bad/#comment-99807</link>
		<dc:creator>Chigliakus</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 26 Jan 2012 22:30:13 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://jaredbernsteinblog.com/?p=3727#comment-99807</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[I can see why you would like your cherry-picked numbers better since they support your narrative, but if Obama&#039;s policies cost us another 1 million jobs then why did the economy turn around after the major provisions of the ARRA took effect?  The ARRA passed in late February of &#039;09 and your preferred data show that job losses had stabilized by December of &#039;09.  From there the economy steadily added jobs for the rest of Obama&#039;s term, around 3 million jobs in fact.

What were your fellow conservatives screaming about during this time, do you remember?  They were screaming about debt and interst rates, they wanted harsh austerity and rate hikes, and they were predicting that the bond vigilantes were going to punish the US govt. and hyperinflation was just around the corner.  We can see what would have happened had Obama listened to the opposition by looking across the pond, see http://krugman.blogs.nytimes.com/2012/01/26/the-greater-depression/]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I can see why you would like your cherry-picked numbers better since they support your narrative, but if Obama&#8217;s policies cost us another 1 million jobs then why did the economy turn around after the major provisions of the ARRA took effect?  The ARRA passed in late February of &#8217;09 and your preferred data show that job losses had stabilized by December of &#8217;09.  From there the economy steadily added jobs for the rest of Obama&#8217;s term, around 3 million jobs in fact.</p>
<p>What were your fellow conservatives screaming about during this time, do you remember?  They were screaming about debt and interst rates, they wanted harsh austerity and rate hikes, and they were predicting that the bond vigilantes were going to punish the US govt. and hyperinflation was just around the corner.  We can see what would have happened had Obama listened to the opposition by looking across the pond, see <a href="http://krugman.blogs.nytimes.com/2012/01/26/the-greater-depression/" rel="nofollow">http://krugman.blogs.nytimes.com/2012/01/26/the-greater-depression/</a></p>
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		<title>By: MarkS</title>
		<link>http://jaredbernsteinblog.com/when-fact-checkers-go-bad%e2%80%a6very-bad/#comment-99790</link>
		<dc:creator>MarkS</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 26 Jan 2012 21:48:35 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://jaredbernsteinblog.com/?p=3727#comment-99790</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[&quot;I find the argument that he has created 3 million jobs during his time as Presient to be misleading at best, an outright lie at worst.&quot;

If President Obama had made this argument, you would be right in judging it a lie. But he didn&#039;t say that. He said something else. What he said was true.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8220;I find the argument that he has created 3 million jobs during his time as Presient to be misleading at best, an outright lie at worst.&#8221;</p>
<p>If President Obama had made this argument, you would be right in judging it a lie. But he didn&#8217;t say that. He said something else. What he said was true.</p>
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		<title>By: Stephen</title>
		<link>http://jaredbernsteinblog.com/when-fact-checkers-go-bad%e2%80%a6very-bad/#comment-99722</link>
		<dc:creator>Stephen</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 26 Jan 2012 19:58:17 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://jaredbernsteinblog.com/?p=3727#comment-99722</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[You can only imagine what would be said if the ecconomy was still tanking and the Repubs were hammering that it is Obamas fault (Of course they are doing that any way but the facts are hard to ignore by the general public, i.e. things are getting better, GM was saved and is prospering, unemployment is decressing OBL is dead etc.)Would these &quot;Politifact&quot; hacks be giveing them high marks for &quot;telling&quot; the truth? I think so. &quot;Politi-fox&quot; is absolutley appropriate.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>You can only imagine what would be said if the ecconomy was still tanking and the Repubs were hammering that it is Obamas fault (Of course they are doing that any way but the facts are hard to ignore by the general public, i.e. things are getting better, GM was saved and is prospering, unemployment is decressing OBL is dead etc.)Would these &#8220;Politifact&#8221; hacks be giveing them high marks for &#8220;telling&#8221; the truth? I think so. &#8220;Politi-fox&#8221; is absolutley appropriate.</p>
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		<title>By: ecolecon</title>
		<link>http://jaredbernsteinblog.com/when-fact-checkers-go-bad%e2%80%a6very-bad/#comment-99631</link>
		<dc:creator>ecolecon</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 26 Jan 2012 18:02:30 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://jaredbernsteinblog.com/?p=3727#comment-99631</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Does anybody still remember spinsanity? Back in the Bush years, they were supposed to be fact checkers but then came out with surprising insights such as: Bush had never claimed that Iraq had WMD, had never linked Saddam Hussein to 9/11, and had never claimed that Iraq was an &quot;imminent threat&quot;. As a result, spinsanity spent most of its column space defending the Bush administration. Using breathtaking double standards and a level of sophistry that would make even some politicians blush, spinsanity ended up attacking those who blew the whistle on Bush&#039;s lies. (e.g. http://www.spinsanity.org/post.html?2004_02_01_archive.html#107574662948215391, http://www.spinsanity.org/columns/20030624.html)

What explains the tendency of self-described fact-checkers to side with the powers-that-be against valid if sometimes exaggerated criticism? It seems that the only kind of criticism they find acceptable is the measured tone of a technical journal. Political debate should be sterile and conservative. Any sharp, pointed, polemical response will displease them. But polemics, political rhetoric and hyperbole are an essential part of political debate. A political critique doesn&#039;t have to be based on the most benign interpretation of what is being criticized, and it doesn&#039;t have to weigh all the arguments equally. Just look at the Declaration of Independence - how unfair and polemical were those attacks on King George! No doubt Poilitifact would rate them &quot;misleading&quot;, if not pants on fire.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Does anybody still remember spinsanity? Back in the Bush years, they were supposed to be fact checkers but then came out with surprising insights such as: Bush had never claimed that Iraq had WMD, had never linked Saddam Hussein to 9/11, and had never claimed that Iraq was an &#8220;imminent threat&#8221;. As a result, spinsanity spent most of its column space defending the Bush administration. Using breathtaking double standards and a level of sophistry that would make even some politicians blush, spinsanity ended up attacking those who blew the whistle on Bush&#8217;s lies. (e.g. <a href="http://www.spinsanity.org/post.html?2004_02_01_archive.html#107574662948215391" rel="nofollow">http://www.spinsanity.org/post.html?2004_02_01_archive.html#107574662948215391</a>, <a href="http://www.spinsanity.org/columns/20030624.html" rel="nofollow">http://www.spinsanity.org/columns/20030624.html</a>)</p>
<p>What explains the tendency of self-described fact-checkers to side with the powers-that-be against valid if sometimes exaggerated criticism? It seems that the only kind of criticism they find acceptable is the measured tone of a technical journal. Political debate should be sterile and conservative. Any sharp, pointed, polemical response will displease them. But polemics, political rhetoric and hyperbole are an essential part of political debate. A political critique doesn&#8217;t have to be based on the most benign interpretation of what is being criticized, and it doesn&#8217;t have to weigh all the arguments equally. Just look at the Declaration of Independence &#8211; how unfair and polemical were those attacks on King George! No doubt Poilitifact would rate them &#8220;misleading&#8221;, if not pants on fire.</p>
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		<title>By: A Conservative Teacher</title>
		<link>http://jaredbernsteinblog.com/when-fact-checkers-go-bad%e2%80%a6very-bad/#comment-99603</link>
		<dc:creator>A Conservative Teacher</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 26 Jan 2012 17:15:02 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://jaredbernsteinblog.com/?p=3727#comment-99603</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Fact check this...

On the following site there is a table that shows the number of people employed in our nation, in the thousands, over time. It&#039;s data provided by the Department of Labor. There is no spin on the data- they&#039;re just numbers:
http://www.adpemploymentreport.com/data/History_December_2011.xlsx

When Bush took office, there were 111358K employed in nonfarm private jobs; when he left office there were 111043- that&#039;s a loss overall of over 300000 jobs, which he deserves blame for. (But keep in mind that this is the bulk of the jobs collapse in 2008 too-onths before that the number was at 114752K, meaning that during the first 7 years of Bush he created 3 million jobs, but he did earn the job losses so let&#039;s just go with the final numbers).

When Obama took office, there were 111043K people employed in nonfarm private jobs; today there are 109646K. This means that during President Obama&#039;s administration, 1,397,000 jobs have been lost.

I find the argument that he has created 3 million jobs during his time as Presient to be misleading at best, an outright lie at worst. Under his leadership, not only did he not recover from the 3 million in job losses under Bush in 2008, he actually made the situation worse and through his policies put another 1 million out of work.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Fact check this&#8230;</p>
<p>On the following site there is a table that shows the number of people employed in our nation, in the thousands, over time. It&#8217;s data provided by the Department of Labor. There is no spin on the data- they&#8217;re just numbers:<br />
<a href="http://www.adpemploymentreport.com/data/History_December_2011.xlsx" rel="nofollow">http://www.adpemploymentreport.com/data/History_December_2011.xlsx</a></p>
<p>When Bush took office, there were 111358K employed in nonfarm private jobs; when he left office there were 111043- that&#8217;s a loss overall of over 300000 jobs, which he deserves blame for. (But keep in mind that this is the bulk of the jobs collapse in 2008 too-onths before that the number was at 114752K, meaning that during the first 7 years of Bush he created 3 million jobs, but he did earn the job losses so let&#8217;s just go with the final numbers).</p>
<p>When Obama took office, there were 111043K people employed in nonfarm private jobs; today there are 109646K. This means that during President Obama&#8217;s administration, 1,397,000 jobs have been lost.</p>
<p>I find the argument that he has created 3 million jobs during his time as Presient to be misleading at best, an outright lie at worst. Under his leadership, not only did he not recover from the 3 million in job losses under Bush in 2008, he actually made the situation worse and through his policies put another 1 million out of work.</p>
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		<title>By: empy</title>
		<link>http://jaredbernsteinblog.com/when-fact-checkers-go-bad%e2%80%a6very-bad/#comment-99590</link>
		<dc:creator>empy</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 26 Jan 2012 16:52:52 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://jaredbernsteinblog.com/?p=3727#comment-99590</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[The purpose of Politifact is not to check facts.  Their purpose is to throw doubt on the ability to fact check in the first place.  Fact checking is not difficult to do but is labor intensive and most &quot;news&quot; corporations don&#039;t want to be bothered, so we get the now standard A says sun rises in the east and B says it obviously come up from the south, you decide who is correct.

Politifact is simply theater to muddy just how simple a fact check is and make it look like some special service.  Anyone who quotes them is suspect even though they do some good work most of the time.  Their Lie of the Year list killed any credibility they ever earned for the sake of fake balance.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The purpose of Politifact is not to check facts.  Their purpose is to throw doubt on the ability to fact check in the first place.  Fact checking is not difficult to do but is labor intensive and most &#8220;news&#8221; corporations don&#8217;t want to be bothered, so we get the now standard A says sun rises in the east and B says it obviously come up from the south, you decide who is correct.</p>
<p>Politifact is simply theater to muddy just how simple a fact check is and make it look like some special service.  Anyone who quotes them is suspect even though they do some good work most of the time.  Their Lie of the Year list killed any credibility they ever earned for the sake of fake balance.</p>
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		<title>By: Bill-N</title>
		<link>http://jaredbernsteinblog.com/when-fact-checkers-go-bad%e2%80%a6very-bad/#comment-99527</link>
		<dc:creator>Bill-N</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 26 Jan 2012 15:20:45 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://jaredbernsteinblog.com/?p=3727#comment-99527</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[^5!  Well said indeed!!]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>^5!  Well said indeed!!</p>
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		<title>By: Jonnan</title>
		<link>http://jaredbernsteinblog.com/when-fact-checkers-go-bad%e2%80%a6very-bad/#comment-99483</link>
		<dc:creator>Jonnan</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 26 Jan 2012 13:47:45 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://jaredbernsteinblog.com/?p=3727#comment-99483</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[But ... but ... If we hold Republicans and Democrats to the same standards, Republicans will accuse us of being Liberal!]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>But &#8230; but &#8230; If we hold Republicans and Democrats to the same standards, Republicans will accuse us of being Liberal!</p>
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		<title>By: Tom</title>
		<link>http://jaredbernsteinblog.com/when-fact-checkers-go-bad%e2%80%a6very-bad/#comment-99211</link>
		<dc:creator>Tom</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 26 Jan 2012 02:21:17 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://jaredbernsteinblog.com/?p=3727#comment-99211</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Curious: Here in Florida Rick Scott, the CEO who creates jobs, has taken credit in his press releases for every hire in FL since his inauguration--but none of the massive state layoffs. So Obama could not have created any of these jobs and Politifact has a point! This is why we need to elect Romney, since as a former CEO all increases in employment will be due to his policies.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Curious: Here in Florida Rick Scott, the CEO who creates jobs, has taken credit in his press releases for every hire in FL since his inauguration&#8211;but none of the massive state layoffs. So Obama could not have created any of these jobs and Politifact has a point! This is why we need to elect Romney, since as a former CEO all increases in employment will be due to his policies.</p>
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		<title>By: Lars Olsson</title>
		<link>http://jaredbernsteinblog.com/when-fact-checkers-go-bad%e2%80%a6very-bad/#comment-99184</link>
		<dc:creator>Lars Olsson</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 26 Jan 2012 00:56:56 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://jaredbernsteinblog.com/?p=3727#comment-99184</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Clearly, they need one. But that hubristic, self-promoting pile of rationalization offered by PolitiFact brass after the &quot;Lie of the Year&quot; debacle makes me doubtful they&#039;d even consider the idea of such a thing worth considering, let alone badly needed.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Clearly, they need one. But that hubristic, self-promoting pile of rationalization offered by PolitiFact brass after the &#8220;Lie of the Year&#8221; debacle makes me doubtful they&#8217;d even consider the idea of such a thing worth considering, let alone badly needed.</p>
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